Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Valvoja: Valvoja
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 16270
- Lauteille: Helmikuu 2006
- Paikkakunta: Kokkola
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Antti, eikös tuo Akilleksen naispukeutuminen ole jopa toistuva ilmiö sankarikreikan tarinnoissa? Ainakin Herakleksen sivuhommiin kuului naiseksi pukeutuminen ja olen muistavinani muitakin vastaavia.
Muistaakseni Odysseyksen sokeaksitekeytyminen esitettiin osoituksena häne oveluudestaan, hahamohan on källi strategi.
Josta johtuu mieleeni tämä että onko tietoa korreloiko oireilu käänteisesti koulutuksen kanssa?
Kun kuvittelisin että esim sissihommien paine ois omiaan hajottaan pään keltä vaan, mutta tarinat kertoo vain aivan mieltäkääntävän hurjasta taistelutoiminnasta. Kun esim Törnin sällit hakkas aseentukeilla ja puukoilla ja muilla passiivisiksipelästyneitä teinipoikia hengiltä.
Kun ilmeisesti se toiminta toimi katharsiksena, jännityksen purkautumistienä.
Eli onko oireilua enimmin heillä joille ei palikoita tilanteen käsittelyyn ole annettu?
Muistaakseni Odysseyksen sokeaksitekeytyminen esitettiin osoituksena häne oveluudestaan, hahamohan on källi strategi.
Josta johtuu mieleeni tämä että onko tietoa korreloiko oireilu käänteisesti koulutuksen kanssa?
Kun kuvittelisin että esim sissihommien paine ois omiaan hajottaan pään keltä vaan, mutta tarinat kertoo vain aivan mieltäkääntävän hurjasta taistelutoiminnasta. Kun esim Törnin sällit hakkas aseentukeilla ja puukoilla ja muilla passiivisiksipelästyneitä teinipoikia hengiltä.
Kun ilmeisesti se toiminta toimi katharsiksena, jännityksen purkautumistienä.
Eli onko oireilua enimmin heillä joille ei palikoita tilanteen käsittelyyn ole annettu?
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 3100
- Lauteille: Tammikuu 2005
- Paikkakunta: Helsinki
- Etulaji: Liikuntafilologia
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Odysseus on ovela, petollinen tai pelkuri, riippuen mitä lukee. Oveluudella ainakin Odysseuksen huijaus paljastetaan, ja Odysseus sitten puolestaan paljastaa Akhilleuksen. Herakleen tapauksessa kyse on rangaistuksesta.
Noista sissihommista tulee mieleen tämä äänite:
https://areena.yle.fi/audio/1-50411056
Haastattelu on nauhoitettu 30.7.1941, puolitoista viikkoa kaukopartio Tolvasen retken (30.6.–19.7.41) jälkeen. Kahdeksasta miehestä hengissä palasi viisi. Haastattelija yrittää kovasti saada aikaiseksi viihdyttävää ohjelmaa (sota-aikaan sopivista aineksista), mutta haastateltavat ovat jotenkin vaikeina. Jäi julkaisematta aikanaan (eikä mitenkään yllättäen), ja juuri siksi se onkin niin mielenkiintoista kuunneltavaa. Mitenköhän vaikuttaa oman toiminnan jälkipuintiin se, että joutuu toimimaan eristyksissä ja itsenäisesti? Onko pakkotilasta moraaliseksi tueksi, kun tilaisuus tekee varkaan tai tappajan?
Vielä lainaus K. Adaridin Sissitoiminnasta (1925) koskien sissipäällikön ominaisuuksia:
Noista sissihommista tulee mieleen tämä äänite:
https://areena.yle.fi/audio/1-50411056
Haastattelu on nauhoitettu 30.7.1941, puolitoista viikkoa kaukopartio Tolvasen retken (30.6.–19.7.41) jälkeen. Kahdeksasta miehestä hengissä palasi viisi. Haastattelija yrittää kovasti saada aikaiseksi viihdyttävää ohjelmaa (sota-aikaan sopivista aineksista), mutta haastateltavat ovat jotenkin vaikeina. Jäi julkaisematta aikanaan (eikä mitenkään yllättäen), ja juuri siksi se onkin niin mielenkiintoista kuunneltavaa. Mitenköhän vaikuttaa oman toiminnan jälkipuintiin se, että joutuu toimimaan eristyksissä ja itsenäisesti? Onko pakkotilasta moraaliseksi tueksi, kun tilaisuus tekee varkaan tai tappajan?
Vielä lainaus K. Adaridin Sissitoiminnasta (1925) koskien sissipäällikön ominaisuuksia:
[Sissipäällikön] tulee pitää osastossaan yllä mitä ankarinta kuria. Tämä on erittäin tärkeätä, sillä sotahistoria osottaa, että sissit usein osottavat taipumusta vapautua tavallisen sotilaskurin määräyksistä, joiden sijaan he tahtovat asettaa "omat sissitapansa", jotka oikeastaan ovat aivan hillittömät. Usein sissien mieliin juurtuu se käsitys, että kuri on aivan tarpeeton, ja he olettavat useinkin saavansa rankaisematta tehdä mitä tahansa. Tätä valitettavaa ilmiötä on tarmokkaasti vastustettava; sotahistoria tarjoo useita esimerkkejä siitä, kuinka sissien hillittömyys on vaikuttanut perin turmiollisesti niiden toimintaan ja kuinka ne itse ovat muuuttuneet väestölle maanvaivaksi.
Antti Ijäs
Studia dimicatoria (blogi), Zotero-profiili (julkaisuja)
"Öyh, öyh, öyh, karjasi sika ja ryntäsi pimeässä Eenokin ylitse ovelle." (Tuulispää 28.9.1928.)
Studia dimicatoria (blogi), Zotero-profiili (julkaisuja)
"Öyh, öyh, öyh, karjasi sika ja ryntäsi pimeässä Eenokin ylitse ovelle." (Tuulispää 28.9.1928.)
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 16270
- Lauteille: Helmikuu 2006
- Paikkakunta: Kokkola
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Olen muistavinani että Herakleksen naispukeutuminen on esitetty siten että voimauros oli yllättävänkin vastustelematon hametta pitämään.
Asiaa ei sanota mutta ikäänkuin vihjataan, annetaan ymmärtää.
Tai ehkä muistelen Waltaria enkä viihdetiedettä.
James Dickey käytti taktiikkaa Deliverancessa, kun raiskattu Bobby on kokeman jälkeen ikäänkuin stigmattu, hiukan liian halukkaasti pyllistänyt ja sikahuudellut ollakseen enää toivottua seuraa.
Jossa tarinassa muuten postraumatiikkakin on osassaan.
Tosta kaukopartiojutusta tulee etsimättä mieleen oma sukulaismies, Eno-Toivo.
Hän ei tehnyt tarinoista viihdettä mutta viittasi jollakin sanalla, ikäänkuin omaa käytöstään purkaen kaskun oli jurrissa varsin arvaamaton ja vaarallinen.
Äijä eli isäni kyki kohtaamaan piruvirneisen Toivon ja soutaan veneen takas rantaan.
Olen ymmärtänyt että vetäytyminen mettään ja muihin komeroihin on melko tunnusmerkillistä nimenomaan niissähommissa häärineille.
Vietnamin jälkeenkin jenkkien takamettissä asusteli pimeäkatseisia miehiä joita ei ollut fiksua puhuttaa.
Asiaa ei sanota mutta ikäänkuin vihjataan, annetaan ymmärtää.
Tai ehkä muistelen Waltaria enkä viihdetiedettä.
James Dickey käytti taktiikkaa Deliverancessa, kun raiskattu Bobby on kokeman jälkeen ikäänkuin stigmattu, hiukan liian halukkaasti pyllistänyt ja sikahuudellut ollakseen enää toivottua seuraa.
Jossa tarinassa muuten postraumatiikkakin on osassaan.
Tosta kaukopartiojutusta tulee etsimättä mieleen oma sukulaismies, Eno-Toivo.
Hän ei tehnyt tarinoista viihdettä mutta viittasi jollakin sanalla, ikäänkuin omaa käytöstään purkaen kaskun oli jurrissa varsin arvaamaton ja vaarallinen.
Äijä eli isäni kyki kohtaamaan piruvirneisen Toivon ja soutaan veneen takas rantaan.
Olen ymmärtänyt että vetäytyminen mettään ja muihin komeroihin on melko tunnusmerkillistä nimenomaan niissähommissa häärineille.
Vietnamin jälkeenkin jenkkien takamettissä asusteli pimeäkatseisia miehiä joita ei ollut fiksua puhuttaa.
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 11551
- Lauteille: Kesäkuu 2008
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Muistan, kun yksi kaveri joskus -80- luvulla jenkkivuotensa jälkeen puhui jostain "Oregonin Vietnam- veteraani- erakkometsureista".Kari Aittomäki kirjoitti: ↑heinä 25, 2021, 23.52
Olen ymmärtänyt että vetäytyminen mettään ja muihin komeroihin on melko tunnusmerkillistä nimenomaan niissähommissa häärineille.
Vietnamin jälkeenkin jenkkien takamettissä asusteli pimeäkatseisia miehiä joita ei ollut fiksua puhuttaa.
Kun nyt googlailin, niin -80- luvulla Yhdysvaltain metsissä on asunut niin veteraaniyhteisöjä, kuin erakoitakin kohtuu paljonkin. Ja metsurina toimiminen on ollut näissä kohtaloissa ihan hyvä sopeutuminen.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/11/us/f ... -home.html
It is midmorning under a sweltering sun and a dozen Vietnam veterans living in the bush are working on their second case of beer.
Tattooed, bearded and thin, the men in the camp are the nucleus of a group of more than 60, most of them veterans of the Vietnam War, others simply drifters, who have sporadically made their home in a dense patch of tropical trees here for the past five years. They call it ''the jungle.''
Some of the veterans give no details about their past or of their roles and ranks in Vietnam, or even their real names. But Vietnam haunts their lives. They say they even have an enemy: the Broward County Sheriff's Office, whose officers occasionally clear the men and their ramshackle huts from the woods. Officers say the woodsmen sometimes resort to shoplifting from businesses nearby.
The woodsmen have also drawn the anger of people who live near the woods. Residents of the nearby Highlands neighborhood say the men sometimes take garments from their clotheslines and that the fringes of the 10-acre woods are stewn with garbage. Fires at Two Shacks
Last weekend, two of the woodsmen's shacks burned. Sheriff's deputies say it was a brush fire. The woodsmen say it was arson.
Ernie Cohen, 41 years old, a three-year veteran of Vietnam, said that he found his campsite a smoldering pile of ashes. ''Everything was burned up,'' he said. ''I lost two bags of clothes, a transistor radio with headphones, food, the family Bible. That was the only thing I was really concerned about -my family Bible.''
On Monday night, according to the woodsmen, a group of local vigilantes wielding shotguns ran through the woods, although no shots were fired. ''Easy pickings,'' a woodsman said he heard one of the intruders say.
George Crolius, public information officer for the Broward County Sheriff's Office, said: ''There are some of those local hicks in the area and some of them do have firearms, and there's no telling what they might do. That's why we're eager to get the campers out of there and clean the place up.''
On Tuesday, the Broward County Commission voted to find shelter for the men and provide them with medical assistance. Officials say they plan to have all the men out of the woods within six months and to raze the campsites, which they say present a fire hazard. 'I Realize We're a Nuisance'
The men, many of whom admit they abuse alcohol and have emotional problems, acknowledge they need help. ''Who wants to stay here forever,'' asked James Yohey, 52, a Korean War veteran who has lived in the woods for more than two years. ''I realize we're a nuisance, an eyesore.''
The men emphasize that their main reason for living in the woods is the camaraderie and trust between them.
''These are my brothers,'' said Mr. Cohen, ''and I'm not leaving without them.''
The woodsmen say that local veterans' groups have offered them weapons but that they turned them down. Since the weekend, however, the men have set up a watch to guard against intruders.
''We're not out here playing Rambo in the woods,'' said one, who identified himself as T.C. ''People here just gave up on society. Vietnam vets are square pegs in round holes. Just can't fit back in.''
T. C., 34, who has a beard that reaches his chest and wears a floppy leather hat, offers a beer to a visitor. He does not want to talk about Vietnam.
''That's not the issue,'' he said. ''The issue is being able to eat every day.''
In the past year, law-enforcement officers say, five of the men from the camps have walked onto the railroad tracks that parallel the jungle's western edge and ''kissed the train,'' camp parlance for committing suicide. The most recent death occurred April 26. The victim, a Navy veteran, had not served in Vietnam. The campers are still wearing tattered black armbands. Other Campsites in U.S. Similarly reclusive veterans have been found living in remote areas of the Pacific Northwest and Hawaii, although the Veterans' Administration says it has no information on how many.
Here, in an unincorporated area of Broward County a few miles north of Fort Lauderdale, the men admit strangers to their camp but insist on escorting them in and out.
Huts are made of plywood, with pieces of clear plastic for windows and furniture salvaged from dumps. A hose attached to a fire hydrant, placed there in case of brush fires, serves as a shower. There is a low-slung hut called the Honeymoon Suite for men who have female visitors.
A pit 15 feet deep, called a ''Charlie Hole'' after the pits used by the Vietcong guerrillas in Vietnam, is filling up with discarded beer cans. Eventually, the men have decided, the cans will be cashed in and the money given to the annual muscular dystrophy drive.
At midday, a marijuana joint is passed around. On an improvised wood-burning grill in a sandy clearing, two pots are steaming. One has a concoction of beans, tomatoes, bologna and noodles; the other has more beans and canned vegetables. The food is a gift from a nearby chapter of the Disabled Veterans of America in response to a story about the woodsmen in a local newspaper. Some Get Temporary Work
As their primary source of cash, the men get temporary jobs at construction sites or with trucking or storage concerns. But work is not always available. A veteran who calls himself Jack O'Diamonds sold his blood until his right arm became infected. ''I got that from living in the jungle,'' he said.
A privately owned employment agency, Labor Force, across the Florida East Coast Railway tracks, is one source of jobs. When the woodsmen do decide to work, said Alvin Robinson, manager of the agency: ''They're great workers. The customers come back and say, 'The guys don't look too good, but they work like a son of a gun.' ''
Robert E. White, the director of the Fort Lauderdale Veterans Center, said he had been trying to help the men obtain benefits and medical attention. ''They say they like to be there in the camp with each other, but deep down inside they don't feel that way,'' Mr. White said. ''They're there because there's some issue they haven't faced.'' 'Helping Each Other'
Most of the men acknowledge this. ''When one of us snaps, we take each other off the tracks,'' says Ricky Shaw, 37, a former Vietnam infantryman from Bruceville, Ind. ''That's why we're together, helping each other. But I'm sure tired of collecting souvenirs from dead people.''
Mr. Shaw, who has lived in the woods for two years, lifted his shirt to display shrapnel scars on his chest, abdomen and back, and then said:
''But there are deeper, imbedded scars, and they're hard to heal. They sent us over there when we were so young and stupid we didn't know how to clean our guns. You're lying in your bunker and your buddy next to you looks up the wrong way and his head is half blown off, and you're trying to put it back together. Well, a lot of the pieces in us scattered and we can't put them back together.''
Tattooed, bearded and thin, the men in the camp are the nucleus of a group of more than 60, most of them veterans of the Vietnam War, others simply drifters, who have sporadically made their home in a dense patch of tropical trees here for the past five years. They call it ''the jungle.''
Some of the veterans give no details about their past or of their roles and ranks in Vietnam, or even their real names. But Vietnam haunts their lives. They say they even have an enemy: the Broward County Sheriff's Office, whose officers occasionally clear the men and their ramshackle huts from the woods. Officers say the woodsmen sometimes resort to shoplifting from businesses nearby.
The woodsmen have also drawn the anger of people who live near the woods. Residents of the nearby Highlands neighborhood say the men sometimes take garments from their clotheslines and that the fringes of the 10-acre woods are stewn with garbage. Fires at Two Shacks
Last weekend, two of the woodsmen's shacks burned. Sheriff's deputies say it was a brush fire. The woodsmen say it was arson.
Ernie Cohen, 41 years old, a three-year veteran of Vietnam, said that he found his campsite a smoldering pile of ashes. ''Everything was burned up,'' he said. ''I lost two bags of clothes, a transistor radio with headphones, food, the family Bible. That was the only thing I was really concerned about -my family Bible.''
On Monday night, according to the woodsmen, a group of local vigilantes wielding shotguns ran through the woods, although no shots were fired. ''Easy pickings,'' a woodsman said he heard one of the intruders say.
George Crolius, public information officer for the Broward County Sheriff's Office, said: ''There are some of those local hicks in the area and some of them do have firearms, and there's no telling what they might do. That's why we're eager to get the campers out of there and clean the place up.''
On Tuesday, the Broward County Commission voted to find shelter for the men and provide them with medical assistance. Officials say they plan to have all the men out of the woods within six months and to raze the campsites, which they say present a fire hazard. 'I Realize We're a Nuisance'
The men, many of whom admit they abuse alcohol and have emotional problems, acknowledge they need help. ''Who wants to stay here forever,'' asked James Yohey, 52, a Korean War veteran who has lived in the woods for more than two years. ''I realize we're a nuisance, an eyesore.''
The men emphasize that their main reason for living in the woods is the camaraderie and trust between them.
''These are my brothers,'' said Mr. Cohen, ''and I'm not leaving without them.''
The woodsmen say that local veterans' groups have offered them weapons but that they turned them down. Since the weekend, however, the men have set up a watch to guard against intruders.
''We're not out here playing Rambo in the woods,'' said one, who identified himself as T.C. ''People here just gave up on society. Vietnam vets are square pegs in round holes. Just can't fit back in.''
T. C., 34, who has a beard that reaches his chest and wears a floppy leather hat, offers a beer to a visitor. He does not want to talk about Vietnam.
''That's not the issue,'' he said. ''The issue is being able to eat every day.''
In the past year, law-enforcement officers say, five of the men from the camps have walked onto the railroad tracks that parallel the jungle's western edge and ''kissed the train,'' camp parlance for committing suicide. The most recent death occurred April 26. The victim, a Navy veteran, had not served in Vietnam. The campers are still wearing tattered black armbands. Other Campsites in U.S. Similarly reclusive veterans have been found living in remote areas of the Pacific Northwest and Hawaii, although the Veterans' Administration says it has no information on how many.
Here, in an unincorporated area of Broward County a few miles north of Fort Lauderdale, the men admit strangers to their camp but insist on escorting them in and out.
Huts are made of plywood, with pieces of clear plastic for windows and furniture salvaged from dumps. A hose attached to a fire hydrant, placed there in case of brush fires, serves as a shower. There is a low-slung hut called the Honeymoon Suite for men who have female visitors.
A pit 15 feet deep, called a ''Charlie Hole'' after the pits used by the Vietcong guerrillas in Vietnam, is filling up with discarded beer cans. Eventually, the men have decided, the cans will be cashed in and the money given to the annual muscular dystrophy drive.
At midday, a marijuana joint is passed around. On an improvised wood-burning grill in a sandy clearing, two pots are steaming. One has a concoction of beans, tomatoes, bologna and noodles; the other has more beans and canned vegetables. The food is a gift from a nearby chapter of the Disabled Veterans of America in response to a story about the woodsmen in a local newspaper. Some Get Temporary Work
As their primary source of cash, the men get temporary jobs at construction sites or with trucking or storage concerns. But work is not always available. A veteran who calls himself Jack O'Diamonds sold his blood until his right arm became infected. ''I got that from living in the jungle,'' he said.
A privately owned employment agency, Labor Force, across the Florida East Coast Railway tracks, is one source of jobs. When the woodsmen do decide to work, said Alvin Robinson, manager of the agency: ''They're great workers. The customers come back and say, 'The guys don't look too good, but they work like a son of a gun.' ''
Robert E. White, the director of the Fort Lauderdale Veterans Center, said he had been trying to help the men obtain benefits and medical attention. ''They say they like to be there in the camp with each other, but deep down inside they don't feel that way,'' Mr. White said. ''They're there because there's some issue they haven't faced.'' 'Helping Each Other'
Most of the men acknowledge this. ''When one of us snaps, we take each other off the tracks,'' says Ricky Shaw, 37, a former Vietnam infantryman from Bruceville, Ind. ''That's why we're together, helping each other. But I'm sure tired of collecting souvenirs from dead people.''
Mr. Shaw, who has lived in the woods for two years, lifted his shirt to display shrapnel scars on his chest, abdomen and back, and then said:
''But there are deeper, imbedded scars, and they're hard to heal. They sent us over there when we were so young and stupid we didn't know how to clean our guns. You're lying in your bunker and your buddy next to you looks up the wrong way and his head is half blown off, and you're trying to put it back together. Well, a lot of the pieces in us scattered and we can't put them back together.''
https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/ ... em=B:38296
AMERICA UNDERCOVER: SOLDIERS IN HIDING (TV)
Summary
One in this series of documentaries presented by HBO. This Academy Award-nominated program is about veterans of the Vietnam War living in isolated wilderness areas in order to cut themselves off from the rest of society.
The documentary profiles several veterans and examines how they cope in their self-imposed exile. The first is Scott, a dog handler who served in Danang in 1967. He lives in the jungles of Hawaii and is wanted by the law for growing marijuana. He joined the marines when he was 17 and received special training to hunt down the Vietcong with attack dogs. He was traumatized by his extensive combat experience; he claims to have killed over a hundred men in combat, and was often one of the first soldiers sent in to a combat zone. He was discharged from the marines and sent home, classified as psychologically disabled. After his first marriage crumbled he re-married and lives his life constantly on the move, one step ahead of law enforcement. He demonstrates how he guards his stashes of marijuana with deadly booby traps he learned how to construct in Vietnam. Like many Vietnam veterans, Scott is constantly contemplating suicide.
In the forests of Washington State, another ex-marine named Bobby lives in a tent with his two dogs. He grew up in the Midwest as the child of a family involved with the military for generations, and so he was enthusiastic about signing up for Vietnam. He graduated in the top ten percentile of his boot camp when he was eighteen years old, and was shipped out during the height of several extremely violent offensives. While in Vietnam he contracted malaria and had to be sent home since he was allergic to the medication for it. Most of his friends were killed in the fighting, and when he went home he found many in his hometown protesting the war. Bobby soon became involved with drugs and started getting into fights. Feeling unable to fit in at home and terrified of disappointing his family, Bobby left and purchased a few acres of land in Washington, where he lives a solitary existence. He can find only brief pockets of comfort in his life now, and while he has difficulty with people he no longer wishes to be alone. He carries a loaded handgun with him at all times.
Just north of Bobby lives Fred, a former helicopter door gunner who resides by a creek in the shadow of a mountain. His campsite is virtually cut off from the outside world, and Fred talks about the natural beauty which surrounds him. He came from a west-coast blue collar family and dropped out of high school to join the military. Fred recounts the horrific actions he took in Vietnam, including gunning down unarmed civilians and helping to burn and level entire villages. He became disgusted with the military's obsession with body count, continuing to kill no matter who the target was. He recounts being ordered to shoot down a mother and her children, and after that no longer cared about his own life. Nowadays his priority consists only of survival. He is continually plagued by nightmares and self-loathing, and keeps no guns for fear of using them indiscriminately.
Another veteran, Carl lives with his wife and three children in a school bus and they are constantly on the move. He grew up as the child of a suburban middle-class family and talks about how it seemed natural to him to enter military service after high school. He recounts the scenes of battle he was involved in, and of his sense of sadness upon leaving his friends in Vietnam. Upon returning home he isolated himself from society, feeling that he was protecting them from his own anger. He has often contemplated suicide but remains alive for the sake of his family; he notes that watching his children grow up has been "painful, yet joyful." He keeps no weapons around him, but his wife is still afraid to leave him alone with the children. Carl often leaves for weeks at a time to be alone on his boat. Both he and his wife discuss the difficulties inherent in both Carl's presence as well as his absence.
Carl keeps a letter correspondence with another veteran named Marty, who lives on the opposite side of the country. Marty was a sergeant in the air cavalry division who now spends his days in the woods, hunting with his bow and arrows. The memories of Vietnam still haunt him; while he was stationed there he grew to like the Vietnamese and wanted them to like Americans as well. He was married for five years and had two children, but his wife left him, feeling it was too difficult to live in isolation with him; she wanted to give the children better opportunities. Marty feels that many Vietnam veterans who returned home wish that they hadn't.
Finally there is Dean from Spokane, Washington, who was with the signal company. He was often in trouble with the law as a teenager and chose military service as an alternative to a jail sentence. His memories of Vietnam were so intrusive into his life that he had to leave his wife for a time, and he ended up spending ten years in a trapper's cabin up in the mountains. Eventually he found himself joined by other Vietnam veterans in similar situations, all of them living off the land using the skills they had learned in the military. He is slowly beginning to reintegrate himself into the "mainstream," reuniting with his wife. Dean recalls his intense and gruesome experiences in Vietnam, including one instance where he and his unit had to pick up dismembered body parts in the aftermath of a horrific combat. He says that seemingly harmless sights and sounds can trigger intense and painful flashbacks for him, making life exceedingly difficult.
Summary
One in this series of documentaries presented by HBO. This Academy Award-nominated program is about veterans of the Vietnam War living in isolated wilderness areas in order to cut themselves off from the rest of society.
The documentary profiles several veterans and examines how they cope in their self-imposed exile. The first is Scott, a dog handler who served in Danang in 1967. He lives in the jungles of Hawaii and is wanted by the law for growing marijuana. He joined the marines when he was 17 and received special training to hunt down the Vietcong with attack dogs. He was traumatized by his extensive combat experience; he claims to have killed over a hundred men in combat, and was often one of the first soldiers sent in to a combat zone. He was discharged from the marines and sent home, classified as psychologically disabled. After his first marriage crumbled he re-married and lives his life constantly on the move, one step ahead of law enforcement. He demonstrates how he guards his stashes of marijuana with deadly booby traps he learned how to construct in Vietnam. Like many Vietnam veterans, Scott is constantly contemplating suicide.
In the forests of Washington State, another ex-marine named Bobby lives in a tent with his two dogs. He grew up in the Midwest as the child of a family involved with the military for generations, and so he was enthusiastic about signing up for Vietnam. He graduated in the top ten percentile of his boot camp when he was eighteen years old, and was shipped out during the height of several extremely violent offensives. While in Vietnam he contracted malaria and had to be sent home since he was allergic to the medication for it. Most of his friends were killed in the fighting, and when he went home he found many in his hometown protesting the war. Bobby soon became involved with drugs and started getting into fights. Feeling unable to fit in at home and terrified of disappointing his family, Bobby left and purchased a few acres of land in Washington, where he lives a solitary existence. He can find only brief pockets of comfort in his life now, and while he has difficulty with people he no longer wishes to be alone. He carries a loaded handgun with him at all times.
Just north of Bobby lives Fred, a former helicopter door gunner who resides by a creek in the shadow of a mountain. His campsite is virtually cut off from the outside world, and Fred talks about the natural beauty which surrounds him. He came from a west-coast blue collar family and dropped out of high school to join the military. Fred recounts the horrific actions he took in Vietnam, including gunning down unarmed civilians and helping to burn and level entire villages. He became disgusted with the military's obsession with body count, continuing to kill no matter who the target was. He recounts being ordered to shoot down a mother and her children, and after that no longer cared about his own life. Nowadays his priority consists only of survival. He is continually plagued by nightmares and self-loathing, and keeps no guns for fear of using them indiscriminately.
Another veteran, Carl lives with his wife and three children in a school bus and they are constantly on the move. He grew up as the child of a suburban middle-class family and talks about how it seemed natural to him to enter military service after high school. He recounts the scenes of battle he was involved in, and of his sense of sadness upon leaving his friends in Vietnam. Upon returning home he isolated himself from society, feeling that he was protecting them from his own anger. He has often contemplated suicide but remains alive for the sake of his family; he notes that watching his children grow up has been "painful, yet joyful." He keeps no weapons around him, but his wife is still afraid to leave him alone with the children. Carl often leaves for weeks at a time to be alone on his boat. Both he and his wife discuss the difficulties inherent in both Carl's presence as well as his absence.
Carl keeps a letter correspondence with another veteran named Marty, who lives on the opposite side of the country. Marty was a sergeant in the air cavalry division who now spends his days in the woods, hunting with his bow and arrows. The memories of Vietnam still haunt him; while he was stationed there he grew to like the Vietnamese and wanted them to like Americans as well. He was married for five years and had two children, but his wife left him, feeling it was too difficult to live in isolation with him; she wanted to give the children better opportunities. Marty feels that many Vietnam veterans who returned home wish that they hadn't.
Finally there is Dean from Spokane, Washington, who was with the signal company. He was often in trouble with the law as a teenager and chose military service as an alternative to a jail sentence. His memories of Vietnam were so intrusive into his life that he had to leave his wife for a time, and he ended up spending ten years in a trapper's cabin up in the mountains. Eventually he found himself joined by other Vietnam veterans in similar situations, all of them living off the land using the skills they had learned in the military. He is slowly beginning to reintegrate himself into the "mainstream," reuniting with his wife. Dean recalls his intense and gruesome experiences in Vietnam, including one instance where he and his unit had to pick up dismembered body parts in the aftermath of a horrific combat. He says that seemingly harmless sights and sounds can trigger intense and painful flashbacks for him, making life exceedingly difficult.
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 11551
- Lauteille: Kesäkuu 2008
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 6585
- Lauteille: Elokuu 2006
- Paikkakunta: Vaasa
- Etulaji: Nyrkkeily
- Sivulajit: Sra, IDPA
- Takalajit: Mil Fight, Pekiti Tirsia, Escrima
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Tässä lisää aiheesta.
https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotima ... H_0RS5arR0
https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotima ... H_0RS5arR0
nNt my circus, not my monkeys.
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 94641
- Lauteille: Joulukuu 2004
- Paikkakunta: Tampere
- Etulaji: HIIT, girya
- Sivulajit: pilates, yinjooga
- Takalajit: Tanglang
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Katsoin tuon dokkarin. Kiitos linkistä. Olihan se karua katseltavaa.
Rambohan perustuu juuri tuollaiseen hahmoon. Ilmeisesti ilmiö tunnettiin jo varhain, sillä First Blood -kirja ilmestyi vuonna 1972. Aika huonosti noiden veteraanien kotiuttamisessa onnistuttiin, ja taitaa tuo olla ongelma edelleenkin.
Rambohan perustuu juuri tuollaiseen hahmoon. Ilmeisesti ilmiö tunnettiin jo varhain, sillä First Blood -kirja ilmestyi vuonna 1972. Aika huonosti noiden veteraanien kotiuttamisessa onnistuttiin, ja taitaa tuo olla ongelma edelleenkin.
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 16270
- Lauteille: Helmikuu 2006
- Paikkakunta: Kokkola
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Muistan lukeneeni artikkelin jossa eroteltiin nämä Rambonkaltaiset vaaralliset drifterit ja jo sinne metsänsiimekseen asettuneet kyyröttäjät toisistaan.
Sävy oli se että jos parkkeeraaminen korsuun oli tapahtunut, oltiin jo matkalla kohti yhteisöjä ja jonkinlaista normaaliutta.
Ei vähiten sentakia että usein lähistöllä asusti muitakin nuoruutensa Vietnamiin jättäneitä.
Mikahan laitto aihetta sivuavasti aiemmin toisessa ketjussa.
Hyvää infoa.
Juu, ei ole ylläri että yhäkään ei ole varsinaisesti löydetty lääkestä tärähtäneille.
Tietysti voi kysyä eivätkö vaikka osasto Törnin miehet ole yhtä tärähtäneitä mutta osaavampia kanavoijia?
Sävy oli se että jos parkkeeraaminen korsuun oli tapahtunut, oltiin jo matkalla kohti yhteisöjä ja jonkinlaista normaaliutta.
Ei vähiten sentakia että usein lähistöllä asusti muitakin nuoruutensa Vietnamiin jättäneitä.
Mikahan laitto aihetta sivuavasti aiemmin toisessa ketjussa.
Hyvää infoa.
Juu, ei ole ylläri että yhäkään ei ole varsinaisesti löydetty lääkestä tärähtäneille.
Tietysti voi kysyä eivätkö vaikka osasto Törnin miehet ole yhtä tärähtäneitä mutta osaavampia kanavoijia?
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 11551
- Lauteille: Kesäkuu 2008
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Joo, tuollaiseen haastatteludokumenttiin valikoituu - tietenkin - sellaiset, joita yleensä saadaan haastateltaviksi ja vieläpä niin, että pystyvät antamaan järkeviä vastauksia.Kari Aittomäki kirjoitti: ↑heinä 27, 2021, 00.16 Muistan lukeneeni artikkelin jossa eroteltiin nämä Rambonkaltaiset vaaralliset drifterit ja jo sinne metsänsiimekseen asettuneet kyyröttäjät toisistaan.
Sävy oli se että jos parkkeeraaminen korsuun oli tapahtunut, oltiin jo matkalla kohti yhteisöjä ja jonkinlaista normaaliutta.
Ei vähiten sentakia että usein lähistöllä asusti muitakin nuoruutensa Vietnamiin jättäneitä.
En tiedä, kuinka tarkkaan myöhempiä vaiheitaan on kartoitettu, mutta osasto Törni perustettiin loppuvuodesta 1943 ja se koostui vapaaehtoisista, joilla oli jo sotakokemusta, joten tietynlainen valikoitumisprosessi oli tapahtunut jo tässä vaiheessa.Tietysti voi kysyä eivätkö vaikka osasto Törnin miehet ole yhtä tärähtäneitä mutta osaavampia kanavoijia?
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 16270
- Lauteille: Helmikuu 2006
- Paikkakunta: Kokkola
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Vanha totuus, ei kauppakorkeasta tule ekonomeja, sinne menee niitä.
Tämä mahtaa olla vaativamman sotilastyön kivijalkaa. Suuntautuminen ja asenteellinen valmius tehdä rajujakin juttuja.
Osuva koulutus ja kas, sodan koira on valmis reuhaamaan.
Siinä lukemassani artikkelissa wbw haastatelleet oli itse eritelleet drifter-vaiheen asettumisesta, ikäänkuin luontaisena kehityksenä.
Kertoivast etsineensä jotakin oman aikansa ja jatkaneet aina matkaa kun pipo alko kiristää.
Ettei tulis tehtyä peruuttamattomuuksia. Kunnes löyty joku kolkka.
Kuulostaa kerrottuna jopa viileeltä, mutta voi jösses sitä kärsimyksen määrää.
Mitä osasto Törnistä muistan lukeneeni niin milteipä joka miehellä oli palikat kasassa hetimiten bileitten jälkeen.
Tämä olisi itsessään aika vahva ääni senvaraan että jälkihoidon sijaan olisi lie viisasta keskittyä koulutuksen tarkkuuteen ja osuvuuteen.
Oikeat sällit oikeille paikoilleen ja kone pelittää.
Ja ei kaise erikoistehtävä-osasto itsessään esimerkkinä toimi, inhimillisesti yhtä tärkeää lienee niitten huoltopuolen superluumujen kouliminen siten että saavagt vellinsä keiteltyä ja jaeltua ja selviävät jälkipeleistäkin?
Tämä mahtaa olla vaativamman sotilastyön kivijalkaa. Suuntautuminen ja asenteellinen valmius tehdä rajujakin juttuja.
Osuva koulutus ja kas, sodan koira on valmis reuhaamaan.
Siinä lukemassani artikkelissa wbw haastatelleet oli itse eritelleet drifter-vaiheen asettumisesta, ikäänkuin luontaisena kehityksenä.
Kertoivast etsineensä jotakin oman aikansa ja jatkaneet aina matkaa kun pipo alko kiristää.
Ettei tulis tehtyä peruuttamattomuuksia. Kunnes löyty joku kolkka.
Kuulostaa kerrottuna jopa viileeltä, mutta voi jösses sitä kärsimyksen määrää.
Mitä osasto Törnistä muistan lukeneeni niin milteipä joka miehellä oli palikat kasassa hetimiten bileitten jälkeen.
Tämä olisi itsessään aika vahva ääni senvaraan että jälkihoidon sijaan olisi lie viisasta keskittyä koulutuksen tarkkuuteen ja osuvuuteen.
Oikeat sällit oikeille paikoilleen ja kone pelittää.
Ja ei kaise erikoistehtävä-osasto itsessään esimerkkinä toimi, inhimillisesti yhtä tärkeää lienee niitten huoltopuolen superluumujen kouliminen siten että saavagt vellinsä keiteltyä ja jaeltua ja selviävät jälkipeleistäkin?
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- päähänpotkija
- Viestit: 11551
- Lauteille: Kesäkuu 2008
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Lauri Törni oli juurikin huollon miehiä eli talousaliupseeri. Siis tuossa roolissa hän lähti talvisotaan, mutta toki hakeutui vapaaehtoisesti taistelullisempiin tehtäviin.Kari Aittomäki kirjoitti: ↑heinä 27, 2021, 01.31
Ja ei kaise erikoistehtävä-osasto itsessään esimerkkinä toimi, inhimillisesti yhtä tärkeää lienee niitten huoltopuolen superluumujen kouliminen siten että saavagt vellinsä keiteltyä ja jaeltua ja selviävät jälkipeleistäkin?
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 19270
- Lauteille: Tammikuu 2005
- Paikkakunta: Oulu
- Etulaji: Potkunyrkkeily
- Takalajit: Karate, ju-jutsu
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Nämä sotamuistelmien horjumattomat sankarit saattavat kyllä kertoa enemmän siitä, miten asiaa haluttiin jälkikäteen kuvata, kuin miesten psyykkisestä kestokyvystä.
Antti Sariola
www.instagram.com/fight_coach_andy/
www.facebook.com/anttisariolakbt/
You can play Football, you can play Rugby, but you can't play K1! - Sensei Will Vanders
www.instagram.com/fight_coach_andy/
www.facebook.com/anttisariolakbt/
You can play Football, you can play Rugby, but you can't play K1! - Sensei Will Vanders
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 3100
- Lauteille: Tammikuu 2005
- Paikkakunta: Helsinki
- Etulaji: Liikuntafilologia
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
^Juuri näin. Ajatusta voisi myös jatkaa niin, että tuollainen sotamuistelu on keino käsitellä asiaa myöhemmin. Se on sitten toinen juttu, onko se edullista mielenterveyden kannalta vai ei.
Antti Ijäs
Studia dimicatoria (blogi), Zotero-profiili (julkaisuja)
"Öyh, öyh, öyh, karjasi sika ja ryntäsi pimeässä Eenokin ylitse ovelle." (Tuulispää 28.9.1928.)
Studia dimicatoria (blogi), Zotero-profiili (julkaisuja)
"Öyh, öyh, öyh, karjasi sika ja ryntäsi pimeässä Eenokin ylitse ovelle." (Tuulispää 28.9.1928.)
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- kylkeenpotkija
- Viestit: 3362
- Lauteille: Elokuu 2011
- Paikkakunta: Mansesta päin
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
https://areena.yle.fi/audio/1-50874175
Noista wanhoista pyssysillä oloista tuli mieleen tämä radio-sarja Pultavan taistelusta 1709, jonka juuri kuuntelin Yle Areenasta. Ei oikein suoraan liity nykyaikaiseen sodankäyntiin kait muuten kuin niiltä osin että sotilaan psyyke tuskin on muuttunut noista ajoista. Joukkopaniikki ja kaikki semmoinen laumaliikehdintä on tuossa hyvin kuvattu, ensin tulee tunti turpaan ja sitten vielä selkäsauna päälle, niin kyllähän se tilanne varsin sekavaksi ja absuriksi menee.
Tiedä sitten onko nykyään huomioitu mitenkään tuommoinen joukkopaniikki ja onkohan siihen mitäään lääkettä keksitty? Tietenkään ei nykyään marssita päin vihollista satojen tai tuhansien miehien osastoissa rumpujen tyylikkäästi päristessä, mutta kyllähän se paniikin pirulainen voi iskeä myös pieneenkin ryhmään.
Noista wanhoista pyssysillä oloista tuli mieleen tämä radio-sarja Pultavan taistelusta 1709, jonka juuri kuuntelin Yle Areenasta. Ei oikein suoraan liity nykyaikaiseen sodankäyntiin kait muuten kuin niiltä osin että sotilaan psyyke tuskin on muuttunut noista ajoista. Joukkopaniikki ja kaikki semmoinen laumaliikehdintä on tuossa hyvin kuvattu, ensin tulee tunti turpaan ja sitten vielä selkäsauna päälle, niin kyllähän se tilanne varsin sekavaksi ja absuriksi menee.
Tiedä sitten onko nykyään huomioitu mitenkään tuommoinen joukkopaniikki ja onkohan siihen mitäään lääkettä keksitty? Tietenkään ei nykyään marssita päin vihollista satojen tai tuhansien miehien osastoissa rumpujen tyylikkäästi päristessä, mutta kyllähän se paniikin pirulainen voi iskeä myös pieneenkin ryhmään.
"Täydellinen on hyvän pahin vihollinen"
-Tuntematon
-Tuntematon
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- etupotkija
- Viestit: 19270
- Lauteille: Tammikuu 2005
- Paikkakunta: Oulu
- Etulaji: Potkunyrkkeily
- Takalajit: Karate, ju-jutsu
Nykyaikainen sodankäynti
Tuohon vaikuttaa sellainen keskiajan lopulta asti edennyt megatrendi kuin taistelukentän tyhjeneminen. Miehistö sijoitellaan entistä paljon harvempaan tulivoiman kasvaessa. Siksi joukkopaniikkia ei niin helposti tapahdu, kun sotilaat eivät ole suorassa kontaktissa keskenään.
Antti Sariola
www.instagram.com/fight_coach_andy/
www.facebook.com/anttisariolakbt/
You can play Football, you can play Rugby, but you can't play K1! - Sensei Will Vanders
www.instagram.com/fight_coach_andy/
www.facebook.com/anttisariolakbt/
You can play Football, you can play Rugby, but you can't play K1! - Sensei Will Vanders
Seuraajat
AlexMachine • Andy • Antti • Daddy • DeusVult • Fubarbarian • J23 • Joeli T. • Jussi Häkkinen • Kari Aittomäki • kimmokammo • Kyynikko • Lasse Candé • MtJ • Mänzy • NCP • PetriP • Point • Safor • shakkinyrkkeilija • sinappi • sinappi • Taijin harjoittaja • Veepee • xYm